Of Proxies and "Counts-As"

A couple of days ago, Goatboy started an interesting discussion at BoLS on the topic of "counts-as" models, WYSIWYG modeling, and proxies. You can read his original post here.

Here are my thoughts on the topic (written partially in reply to other posters who responded in that thread):

This is a really interesting topic - I find I agree with some folks and disagree with others. Let's clarify some situations, to begin with:"Counts-As" typically means using one model from the same army to count as another, usually with some modification to the model. An example is modeling a eldar guardian jetbike to be a warlock on jetbike by changing the arm, head, etc. "Proxying" is subbing a model of one type for another.

What's the difference between counts-as and proxying? That is a fine line, and it is usually based on the intent of the player. A player who has a counts-as model usually intends for the counts-as model to permanently serve as the model it is counting for. This usually involves doing some kit bashing or modeling to make the model look different, or to make it look as intended. The intent behind proxying is merely to have a permanent substitution, usually for the purpose of trying something out. An example of this would be grabbing a spare space marine and subbing him in for a named character. After that game, the spare marine could probably go back to being a plain old marine. (Note that I am not trying to pass judgement on any of these techniques, just trying to clarify terms.)

Next, we have "WYSIWYG" - the idea that a model has exactly what appears to be modeled on it. There are even degrees of this. A loose interpretation would say that a model has to have whatever its main weapon is, but a second weapon wouldn't have to be shown. (Space Marines are supposed to have bolter and bolt pistol). A strict version to say that a model ONLY has the equipment that is modeled on it (A space marine that didn't show both bolter and bolt pistol would only have one.) A variant of "WYSIWYG" that really only appies to marine armies is the chapter markings and paint schemes. This is the idea that a dark angel could be used as a generic space marine or vice versa. I'll call this Chapter-WYSIWYG. Chapter-WYSIWYG deals with swapping codices.

I think the most important thing about proxying, counts-as, or any type of WYSIWYG is that both players agree before any game begins. IF you think that Chapter-WYSIWYG is too cheesy, you don't have to play against it. When that black templars player says he is using the regular marines codex, you can just say "no thanks, I don't want to play against an army like that." No one is forcing you to play against any other player! Tournaments are a special case, obviously, and the rules for what is tournament legal should be established before the tournament begins, and it is your responsibility as a player to know what the terms are.

Now, on to some general thoughts of mine:

Counts-as is totally cool. In some cases, it is necessary, because the GW models don't exist (jetbiked farseer and warlocks). As most players will agree, counts-as is the attempt to convert one model into another, usually to make it fit more with your army's fluff, or because you think the "official" model is inferior. (For example, I converted a squad of normal marines into Sternguard Vets because I didn't like the official models. I did some kitbashing on the bolters to make them cooler and I decked them all out with purity seals and other bits.) Counts-as models should have the same base and model size to ensure that you're not breaking the rules. And counts-as models should fit your army's theme, otherwise, why are you using them! Most players will happily accept counts-as models, as long as it is clear what the counts-as models is supposed to count as.

Proxying is a different story. Whether or not you will play against a player who proxies, or whether or not you proxy is a personal choice. Personally, I'll play against a player who proxies, and have used proxies myself. I usually will play a proxy when I want to try out something new without going and dumping $50 on a new model, but I don't make a habit out of it. I also don't mind other players doing the same thing, but I don't think I would want to play against a proxy army in a tournament. It's sort of a personal limit on what you'll accept. I think if someone rolled up with a 'nids army and tried to tell me they were all space marines, I'd say "no thanks." However, if the same player rolled up and said "Here's my space marine army, however I'm missing an assault marine squad, so I'm going to sub in these chaos raptors," I'd probably be okay with it. The reasons are twofold: First, the fluffy reason - the fiction of the game is broken when players start using proxies. I can personally get over this with one or two proxies, but for a whole army its kind of hard to visualize that they are something completely different. The second reason is practical - unless the models at least resemble what they are, its pretty much impossible for the player or their opponent to keep track of what is what!

WYSIWYG: Basically, I think WYSIWYG is fine as long as its not out of control. Again, the primary reason is that it becomes too difficult to keep track of what is what if nothing is modeled correctly. However if one or two models in your army have different weapons, I'm fine with that. I do this pretty regularly because I built my SM army during 4th edition and I was also new, so I would up later wishing things had been built differently (stupid commander with plasma pistol and 1 lightning claw!) Instead of buying another commander, I generally just say "hey, that's a power fist and bolt pistol" or something of the like. I try generally to play with the weapons shown on the model, but sometimes I change something up, and I don't mind when my opponents do it, as long as I know what is what. Again, as long as both players agree at the beginning of the game, its all honky dory.

Chapter-WYSIWYG is okay with me. To me it makes more sense to take a specific space marine army (dark angels) and play them using the core marine codex, than it does to use a generic marine army and play them using a specific codex like dark angels. However, I don't think I'd really have a problem with this. My decision about whether or not I'd play against such a force is really a matter of whether or not I like the player! If they've got a story behind it, or some reasoning that seems sound, or if they are just cool, I'm liable to allow their oddball army. However if the player is just a jerk, I'm not going to play with him anyway (and not because of his choice of army or codex!)

So, in summary:
- Just agree with your opponent on what's acceptable before your game begins. Nobody is forcing you to play.
- Don't be a jerk! (And you CAN be competetive without being a jerk. The two are not mutually exclusive. But that's a post for another day.)